Generic Film vs. Video Thread

[Alex]

so my comment was fair enough, but you stand by your statement "that I don't know shit".

Perhaps I don't know shit, but I know Betacam, and virtually every other format that is none HD. What I've seen about HD I don't like because just like every other video format that gets introduced, the real test, the editing capabilities and the playback machines, always seem to come out, like 3-4 years later.

Using the camera to playback the image is not the way the professionals do it.

[Nigel]

JB--

You are spot on. I haven't had a job that the requested BetaSP since 2000 or 2001. I remember I had some Super8 transfered to SP in 2001 because at the time my editor didn't have a Digi deck. That was a huge mistake. DigiBeta has been the default SD stock of choice in the US for a few years now. It will continue to be for a while into the future since HD is slow to really take off on a mass scale. Right now I get all my film transfered to HDCam but that is only ecause we can dub DigiBeta off of them.

SP was great while it lasted but like all things it had its life and now is dying without anyone shedding a tear.

Good Luck

[Alex]

Used UVW 1800 decks are STILL selling for between $3,500-$5,500 dollars on ebay.

BetaCam SP is STILL the choice of a vast number of projects that need a high gloss look but can't afford DigiBeta.

The price differential between Digibeta and BetaCam SP is astronomical and in no way matches the quality differences between the two.

If you go into a Digibeta suite to do any kind of simple tape to tape editing (not all editing jobs need to be edited NLE), you will pay between $150 to $300.00 bucks an hour.

BetaCam SP editing can be had for $50-$75.00 bucks an hour. BetaCam SP is an incredible format for preserving demo tapes and for making super quick changes as different types of demo reels are needed. Instant editing from tape sources can be much faster than having to access tapes and importing them into NLE BEFORE any editing can take place.

[jb_617]

Alex:

Digi has been around for quite a while here, certainly more than 4 years. I guess either the US is still playing catch-up, or you infact, don't know shit. It wasn't you comment that was "fair enough", that's still as moronic now as it was then. It was the fact you were saying that you intened no insult that was fair enough. Well, guess what, I <u>do</u> intend some insult because you've put my back up now, so read on old man...

We just hire an editing bay for the offline and conform for a few hours in an online.

The rates aren't too bad in London. About 500-750 for a week for dry hire offline and 70-90 per hour online. (Those prices are in sterling by the way but I'm not using my computer and this one doesn't have a pound sign!) Rates based on a 10 hour day and include all the tea you can drink! Biscuits extra. That seems reasonable to me. If they charge you $300 an hour (about 160 pounds) for Digibeta in the US, you are getting ripped off. I have no intention of buying my own decks or editing system as they wouldn't get used enough to justify the cost and you have to write the tax off over several years. By the way, what is wrong with linear editing straight from Digi copies (obviously not the masters). From what I can tell, over here, nobody charges extra for Digi. You hire the suite and pretty much get every input format from VHS to HD included. Maybe that is why the last time I was in an editing suite in London, the building was full of American TV shows being edited?

We don't "playback through the camera", nobody does that, especially not if you have the budget to shoot and edit DigiBeta, so stop trying to imply I'm a freaking schoolboy. If you read my posts, I prefaced everything with "I only know about the UK", if SP is still prevelant in the US, fine, so what? I'm not debating the merits of Digi v SP with you, I couldn't give a fuck, it's video. Why are you always trying to turn everything into an argument? You even tried to start a PAL v NTSC argument, above, based soley on some throw-away joke I made. I mean Jesus, get over yourself. Fine you have "10 years experience" at this shit. Congratulations, 10 years ago I was doing my A-levels. Which, I have to say, included learning how to construct an argument without turning into a whining baby.

Look, let me lay it out for you, as I have done several times before around here, but you never seem to listen. I. AM. A. WRITER. Everything I know about cameras, editing, and the production process comes from working with very talented and skilled technicians (mostly ex-BBC -- the finest and best trained TV crews in the world and that is <u>not</u> open for debate.) If I'm lucky, on a paid job, I will get to hang around on set or in a studio for a day or an afternoon. Sometimes people have time to answer my questions (I have a lot of those!) but sometimes they're a bit busy so I ask them in the pub later. If I'm invited to, or I know the editor well, I can get to sit in on some editing sessions and see how that works. I'm just curious about this stuff as it is all part of the process and I'd like to understand it.

I don't need to cut a "demo reel", writers don't have those. And if after "10 years in the industry" that's what you're cutting, well...best of luck to you.

And since you know "every format except HD" allow me to enlighten you. The play in for capture for HD has been around for quite a while and is fairly widely used over here, although nowhere near as widely used as Digi. It's not the editing systems that are the problem, it's been the cameras so far. All you are doing is digitising the footage for offline. Online HD editing has been around as long as the format you dope. Nobody is going to invent a tape format that can't be edited! I guess Lucas must be wandering around looking for someone to edit his star wars movies that he shot on HD about...er...7 years ago? (Nerds and geeks feel free to correct me, I truly don't care).

Feel free to sit on your mountain of SP tapes, Alex. And cry like a little girl.


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Don't poke the bear, the bear is grumpy today.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 27, 2005 07:16 AM: Message edited by: jb. ]</font>

[Matty2phatty]

... wow

[Alex]

By the way, I'm buying more BetaCam SP tape than I ever have after being in business for 10 years.

There is no better format for storing high quality images, being able to make quick edits from, and that is actually affordable.

Nigel, you would be wise to score a player only deck off of ebay for like a grand.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 27, 2005 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]</font>

[assyrix]

From the "Technical Requirements" document on the Channel 4 web site:

"Programmes may be shot on Panasonic D5 or Sony Digibeta component
videotape formats and these approved formats may be used for
origination without further reference to Channel Four. The use of Beta SP
is not permissible for 16:9 origination, and is discouraged for 4:3
origination. In all cases the highest standards of equipment maintenance
and tape quality must be ensured.
The use of all other professional videotape formats including DVCPro,
DVcam, Sony SX and JVC Digital-S must be referred to the Engineering
department to consider detailed requirements and specific agreement for
use discussed."